Behind every impactful resource lies a passionate individual driving its mission forward. Look Beyond the List has been a trusted resource in our journey through the film and TV industry since its first launch in 2020. Today, we introduce you to the driving force behind this indispensable platform: Martina Silcock. A seasoned writer/director with a strong commitment to fostering cultural change, Martina joins us to discuss her motivations, the ripple effects of her efforts and what she envisions for LBtL’s future.

Q. Cinemamas is always interested in hearing from those who want to make a difference in the film and TV industries. Could you share what inspired you to create Look Beyond the List?

Throughout my career in TV and film, I've been dedicated to broadening my professional network beyond individuals who share my demographic background (white, cisgender, non-disabled), while actively promoting a culture of continual learning and progress.

I moved to the US six years ago and currently work between the US and Europe. My experience working in different roles in production, post-production and development over the years spanning multiple countries has afforded me access to people of different levels in different areas of the business. This has given me a wider knowledge and access base than most to understand how people think while also allowing me access to speak to decision-makers in production companies and those who are freelance.

When George Floyd was murdered in 2020 I saw companies and individuals working in TV and film posting things on social media that I knew weren’t true to my experiences working with them. It spurred me into action to see what I could do in my position of access to find a way to ask people to stand up for what they were posting online.

At first, I set up a list on IMDb of talent based in the UK from Black, Asian, Middle-Eastern and multi-heritage diasporas working in scripted TV and film, because there wasn’t one already on there. IMDb is the industry standard for finding information so that felt like the best place to put it.

After speaking with a few organisations I realised there wasn’t a central place where you could find all of the resources available, including funds, support groups etc that support those from underrepresented backgrounds and identities working in scripted TV and film – there were some sites that had basic lists with outdated links or defunct organisations but nothing that was current and constantly updating – and so Look Beyond the List was born.

I do think lists and quotas have their place to initiate discussion and spark change but they can be reductive and make people lazy in their inclusion effectiveness. Lists and quotas can make those in power feel, or look like, they are making change, without actually making truly effective change. I do keep the IMDb list going because many people tell me they use it and many people still message me asking to be put on there. As long as it’s helpful, I’ll continue to update it.

This also feeds into why I chose the name Look Beyond the List. After speaking to different organisations when I started to formulate how to build the site, I realised that systemic constructs like our CVs and IMDb pages are all just lists and they don’t really say very much about what a person has done or what they could or would like to do. We need to talk to people, to listen to their ambitions, and to learn what their skills are in order to give everyone a chance. For example, a Make-Up Designer working in sitcoms may have done so because that’s what was continually offered to them, but they may be desperate to break into TV drama. It’s the lists and boxes we put each other and ourselves in that hold all of us back.

Q. Could you take us on a personal journey? What are some significant moments or experiences in your life that have shaped your passion for championing diversity and inclusion?

I want to be very careful here as I don’t want to be sanctimonious or make sweeping declarations that sound the gong of White Savior Narrative. I’ve always aimed to do my best to stand up for others or provide support where I can in my personal and working life. I know I’ve not always achieved this. And I know I have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes.

When I set up LBtL I was very aware of not stepping on the work of those who have been doing the work for years, and decades, already. I wanted to use the access and voice I had to find a way to uplift the already-existing organisations. I think that’s where a lot of new organisations falter, and this isn’t just limited to the screen industries or to the reckoning of race relations in 2020. As people we have a tendency to think that when we hear about something or have a revelation about something we then think it’s something new, and it very very rarely is. Systemic issues that harm society are exactly that, systemic. Ingrained structures are built into our social structures to maintain the power of the powerful and it’s only when it’s pointed out that something is unfair – and often only when it hits a point of extremism – do those who systemically benefit from these systems start to think maybe it might not be such a great thing.

For me, championing inclusion is about fostering connections and helping uplift and champion those who have been doing the work and have been largely ignored by those in power in TV and film. That’s why I keep my name away from the LBtL site as it’s a resource for everyone and shouldn’t be gate-keeped. I hope the site continues to grow and be helpful for all and I’m looking forward to connecting more with those doing the work to learn how the site can support them and how I can continue to learn too.

Q. What are your hopes for the UK Screen industries moving forward, and how do you see LBTL playing a role in this?

Changing the industry is a matter of hearts and minds. Change is about how we get people to think in a way different from how they’ve been taught and how those who have gone before them have thought and treated them. The screen industries currently thrive on the basis of everything being done fast but this impacts everything negatively, from the way we hire to what is seen on screen. If we approach our working practices in a more holistic and inclusive way then our work lives will be happier, there will be a greater confluence of artistic ideas and what we see on screen will be better and more representative of the real world than it is now.

My hope for the future is that LBtL becomes the industry standard of where people turn to find information on resources for systemically underrepresented talent working behind the camera in scripted TV and film. My aim is to make the site truly inclusive of every resource available. The site is updated almost every day and there are always more resources to add. A search function is coming very soon as well as a newsletter with details of what has been added to the site and other news too. For now, jobs and updates are posted on our LinkedIn and Instagram pages.

One thing we also need to look at in the screen industries is examining the barriers we have systemically created for those to enter the TV and film world, or to continue working within it. The long working hours are a huge barrier for many, especially those with caring responsibilities, as well as being a danger to crew’s health through accidents (on- and off-set) caused by tiredness. The need for Production Assistants to have a driving license is a huge barrier for those starting out who can’t afford to take driving lessons. These are just a couple of the issues we have created as an industry that have made us all think this has to be the norm. On the working hours issue, I highly recommend Haskell Wexler’s documentary Who Needs Sleep?, which is available on YouTube. It should be required watching for everyone working in TV and film.

Q. Understanding the driving force behind individuals is crucial. Martina, what personally motivates you?

As a Producer, helping great stories come to life. I get such a thrill before I watch any film, I wonder “what will this film show me or teach me, how will it dazzle me, where will the story take me”. That’s the real magic of cinema. I love being a part of helping writers find their stories, helping writers and directors make their dreams come alive, and hearing how a story really resonated with an audience.

When building a project and a team, it’s very important to me to make the set an inclusive and happy one. It brings me such joy when cast and crew members come up to me at the end of a shoot and say what a great time they had. Always treat people equitably and fairly, be honest about what the production will involve from the very beginning, and feed everyone well.

Q. We often hear of the Little Black Book Syndrome within the industry (when people use certain lists of contacts for jobs). How can we move away from this type of behaviour and widen our talent pools?

There has been almost a pride in the screen industries that it’s all about who you know and this attitude has created a systemic issue where the pool of talent becomes ever smaller. If we don’t expand beyond who we know then it creates a feedback loop where the stories we tell are told in the same ways, about the same concepts, and the input provided on them will be the same. Each member of the cast and crew has an impact on the making of a project and by creating a healthy, happy and inclusive working environment this will benefit everyone working on the project, the output we create and in turn the audience.

The big issue is changing people’s mentality when it comes to hiring. Those in hiring positions are often scared of the unknown and/or have time pressures to find someone asap which means they just take the first recommendation they are offered. Something I’ve spoken to a few Heads of Production and Producers about is creating a system where there is someone on set, someone like a recruitment or HR person, who gets to know the team and can help with last minute requests for crew. It would be someone who has access to different talent pools and resources and has the time to make calls, ask questions, do the due diligence for references and can also assist with any accessibility requests. This is something I’m workshopping in terms of how this could work, e.g. if their time could be split between productions etc, so is a little way off.

For now though, and especially while work is quiet in the UK, everyone should be taking advantage of networking events. There are a lot going on at the moment, which we promote on LBtL, mostly on our Instagram stories, and it’s great that so many organizations are taking the opportunity to put on these events. And it’s something people can do individually by reaching out to organizations or by taking a look on the LBtL site under the Talent Lists page. There are loads of lists and organizations on there where you can expand your network.

I understand why it might be difficult for people who are used to working within their set team of people but you can hardly ever have your whole team working with you - there’s always opportunity for you to work with someone new. And it’s healthy to work with different people on different projects. It will make you as an individual more productive and allows you to find new ways of working.

We should also encourage people to not put barriers up when they are looking at someone’s CV or IMDb page and we should ask questions about people’s experience and their ambitions for the future. As our site name encourages, you have to look beyond the list to understand someone’s true talent and background.

Q. Advocacy for change is a central theme at Cinemamas. In your opinion, what practical steps can individuals take towards positive change? And how can Look Beyond the List support these efforts?

I certainly don’t have all the answers, and I know I am continually learning how I can improve the way I work as a Producer and with Look Beyond the List. I think the learning is the important part. To always be open to listening to and understanding others. If someone tells you that something you said was hurtful then listen and learn.

A big issue with those in hiring positions, which I think amplifies a lot of bullying, is that the screen industries don’t have a formalised reporting system or training system. There is help with bullying provided by the Film & TV Charity, which is a great tool, but there is also a need to emphasise to HODs that they aren’t just creatives, they are managers too. People rise up due to their working experience but no formal training is given in how to manage other people. This is something I’ve discussed with ScreenSkills and Heads of Production as ScreenSkills have a great Management Training Course and it would be great to make this compulsory for all those in senior positions.

On the LBtL site we have a section for Inclusivity Toolkits, which include links to guidelines of how you can make your production more inclusive and accessible. There is also info on training schemes on our site, including unconscious bias training available from different sources.

Q. How can we collectively work towards creating a more inclusive and supportive environment?

I’m going to be very cheesy – my mantra is to look beyond the list wherever you can. We need to examine why we make certain choices, why we choose certain phrasing or language, or why we may think of someone as “other” to us and our experiences. Exploring our unconscious biases is a great step to examining this.

Don’t put people in boxes and explore why we do so. Look beyond what it just says on IMDb or on a CV about someone. This doesn’t tell you the whole picture. Essentially we need to do the work on ourselves and be good to each other. Filmmaking should be fun after all!

By not being truly inclusive as an industry in every capacity and at every level, it makes the world smaller. Creating an equitable and inclusive environment for all makes us all better people, in ourselves and in our work.

Q. How do you manage your own mental health and well-being while actively championing diversity and inclusion in the UK screen industries?

Ha, I’ll let you know when I figure this out! I know I’m in a greater position of privilege than most – being white, non-disabled, cis and middle-class – so I know I have it a lot easier than many people already working to make the UK screen industries more inclusive, especially those who have been doing it for a lot longer, and that keeps me motivated to keep going, keep listening and keep evolving.

Visit Look Beyond the List to learn about all the resources they share and follow them on social media for job opportunities and industry updates:

Website: www.lookbeyondthelist.com

Instagram: @lookbeyondthelist

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/look-beyond-the-list/